The Great PK Discussion

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On November 11, 2001, a round table discussion was held. To participate, it was required that one read a post on the Black Conclave's EZForum (however, that document is no longer available). Tynian was trying to get a handle on how to address the issue of damage, eq, PK, player base, and a host of other intertwining issues. (Log by Cordir, editing by Cordir and Katrana.)

26 players.
Hum [     Attendant     ] Cordir busca su Dark, Shadow y Night 
Elf [    Ma: 7 Wa:11    ] Salomar.
Hum [       Cl: 6       ] Saoltes one who wishes to learn more wisdom 
Hum [    Cl:25 Wa:21    ] Zedar, the man with a dream! NO LIMIT SOLDIER!!!
Elf [ Wa:30 Th:25 Ma:30 ] Mael, The Patriarch of the Coven
Ogr [    Sh:28 Wa:30    ] Mong, Malla Ul'Fizhbrrn Saruk d'lil Veldrin.
Hum [    Wa:30 Cl:30    ] Rath, Wicked Judge of the Black Conclave
Ogr [     Protector     ] Korsk.  Unity.
Hum [    Ra:15 Ma:22    ] Paco theMexican face in the Circle Of Faces[AYALA]
Hum [    Wa:28 Cl:30    ] Clue(Mrs Rigel) Weaver Priestess, favored of Fate
Dwa [    Cl:15 Th:11    ] Ammonia.  You're not the only one.  - Unity -
Elf [ Th:23 Ra:30 Ma:30 ] Valo, Warden of the Black Conclave
Hel [ Th:16 Ma:18 Wa:17 ] Kirth Wisdom will make you strong
Hum [       Th: 9       ] Jessica the sneaky.
Dwa [ Wa:30 Th:23 Cl:30 ] Mordith, Malevolent Cardinal of the Black Conclave
Elf [    Cl:20 Wa:15    ] Zaaris Tal'shyre
Elf [    Ra: 1 Cl:12    ] Aravan navarA
Elf [       Ma:11       ] Silumko the Elf
Hlf [    Cl:18 Wa:15    ] Drucilla, Orthae Sariss d'lil Veldrin
Gno [       Cl:13       ] Laedis Scatterbrat, Little Cleric of Wisdom
Hum [    Cl:26 Wa:24    ] Paython Grimward, Graham Cracker of the PrU! Coven 
Elf [    Ra:14 Ma:15    ] Silvanus,  Wickerman of the Woodlands
Hum [    Wa:25 Th:26    ] Ptarchyzk the Atheistic Muggle
Elf [    Ma:18 Ra:16    ] Terenas.
Hel [    Ra:25 Ma:25    ] Nazca, Maelmordian Merchant.
Dwa [    Implementor    ] Tynian: Discussion in The Storytelling Amphitheater

The Storytelling Amphitheater
[Exits: west]
(Token magic) A magical spring flows from the ground here.
(Intense Light Cyan Aura) Tynian is here.
(Invis) (Dark Red Aura) (*Ally*) Mong is here.
Aravan is here.
Zaaris is here.
(Dark Cyan Aura) Ammonia is resting here.
Clue is here.
(Light Red Aura) (*Ally*) Mael is resting here.
(Dark Red Aura) Rath is resting here.
Nazca is resting here.

Someone: If you haven't read Tynian's letter to Craige, you might want to. Its required reading for the discussion

Clue curtseys gracefully for you.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'hmm.'.
Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'interesting conversation'.

Aravan says (in common), 'hehe what ahppened to the discussion'.

Nazca says (in common), 'people are doing their homework'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'we were reading something on the web.. doing homework as it was.'.

Rath nods in recognition to Nazca.

Aravan says (in common), 'hurm interesting'.

Mael says (in common), 'I just gained some respect for craige'.

Aravan says (in common), 'hehe me too'.
Aravan says (in common), 'corse i though he was cool to begin with wink wink'.

Rath says (in common), 'somehow I don't think Craige would care either way'.
Ptarchyzk rolls his eyes.

Aravan smirks.
Aravan nods.

Rath rests.

Someone smirks at Rath's saying.

Aravan says (in common), 'prob right rath'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'some PKer's deserve respect in their own right, as they are good at what they do..'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'some are just jerks with alot of gear... and don't deserve respect.'.

Aravan smirks.
Rath says (in common), 'maybe some of the jerks with alot of gear don't care what blithering snobs think'.

Mael says (in common), 'I don't have a problem with jerks having gear, I have a problem with jerks trying to intimidate others into quitting tfc'.

Rath says (in common), 'but that's just speculation'.
Rath nods in recognition to Mael.

Mael says (in common), 'hell I'm a jerk and I have gear'.
Mael says (in common), ':P'.

Aravan smirks.
Aravan says (in common), 'so what is the problem exactly?'.

Rath says (in common), 'you're an's to be expected'.

Rath comforts Mael.

Ptarchyzk snickers softly.

You [GS] tell Mael, 'Very good point - the inimidation and make em leave part - not you being a jerk with eq. = P '.

Aravan says (in common), 'tfc is the only mud i know that is fun at lower lvl.. hehe that has something for lower lvls to do'.

Rath says (in common), 'what're you snickering about.You're a bird,almost as bad '.

Mael tells you (in common), '*grins*'.

Rath pokes Ptarchyzk in the ribs.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I'm a what??'.

Rath says (in common), 'hm'.

Ptarchyzk sits down and thinks deeply.

Valo has returned from the void.

Rath says (in common), 'got you and keat mixed up'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'when did I grow feathers?'.

Rath says (in common), 'apologies for insulting you'.
Rath bows deeply.

Aravan giggles.

Ptarchyzk laughs.

Someone says, 'Chickens have feathers. don't they?'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'No applogies needed. I don't offend easily.'.

Tynian says, 'Back'.

Mael shows his approval by clapping his hands together.

Abe arrives from the west.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'Molo, are you calling me a chicken?'.

Someone says, 'No, just stating that chickens do have feathers'.

Aslan arrives from the west.

Mael says (in common), 'he's right about the chicken thing'.
Mael says (in common), 'I've seen chickens'.

Someone thanks Mael heartily.

Aravan smirks.

Rath nods in recognition to Mael.

Zaaris says (in common), 'yum..chicken'.

Aravan says (in common), 'hurm heck of a discussion guys'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'so have I ..I like em better without feathers. taste better.'.

Mael says (in common), 'giving tynian time to get back into the swing'.

Rath says (in common), 'but you have to leave on the skin'.

Someone says, 'Everyone read the letter?'.

Aravan nods.

Mael says (in common), 'without him it's just gossip :P'.

Zaaris nods.
Mong nods.

Aravan says (in common), 'i did'.

### Zedar killed by Mordith at A Cave in the Caverns of Kuroth

Abe nods.

Mael says (in common), 'I did as well'.

Jessica says (in common), 'yes'.

Rath says (in common), 'skinless chicken is not tasty'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I read quickly.. '.
Ptarchyzk smiles happily.

Rath says (in common), 'fried chicken is very tasty'.

Tynian says, 'I'm more or less caught up'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i think it makes sense...'.

Rath says (in common), 'especially with mashed potatoes'.

Mael says (in common), 'good deal'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'ever been to the boneless, skinless chicken ranch?'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'fireball makes for 'extra crispy' recipe'.

Aravan says (in common), 'why not just elimnate safe for a limited period of time for those that get really bad debt?'.

Aravan says (in common), 'so they become vulnerable'.

Mael says (in common), 'well I worry about the effect of impending changes that will generally weaken players accross the board'.

Aravan says (in common), 'and make bounty hunters hunt in safe?'.

Mael says (in common), 'I think it has left me, at least, in a limbo like state'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'doesn't matter.. there's still lots of 1 person rooms.'.

Mael says (in common), 'heh I'm not sure what is best to do'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i agree mael'.

Mael says (in common), 'everything is changing so fast'.

Aravan says (in common), 'you could give them summon ptarchyzk'.

Nazca says (in common), 'when 3.x was implemented, a lot of people felt that way'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'fast??'.

Nazca says (in common), 'a lot of thsoe players left'.

Mael says (in common), 'well like when glycerine was auctioning'.
Mael says (in common), 'I didn't feel like it made sense to buy'.
Mael says (in common), 'becaue I'm uncertain of the value of damage anymore'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'aravan.. that's what blockings are for. and all the big people with lots of debt have a blocking.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'nod'.

Aravan says (in common), 'ok ptarchyzk'.

Rath says (in common), 'there's no surefire way to punish people with lots of debt ptar other then to deathspell them'.

Aravan says (in common), 'was just athought'.

Mael says (in common), 'I like that instant jailtime idea'.

Rath says (in common), 'there's always going to be a way to escape and outwit'.

Mael says (in common), 'that's cool'.

Rath says (in common), 'bah'.
Rath says (in common), 'stupid'.

Aravan says (in common), 'nod'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i dotn like the jail time'.

Mael says (in common), 'I also agree with craige that pking involves lots of luck in many cases'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I wasn't looking to punish em.. just giving a rebuttal to taking the saferoom thing awayfrom them'

Rath nods in recognition to Mael.
Rath says (in common), 'yep'.

Mael says (in common), 'teleports are just so prevalent'.

Aravan says (in common), 'nod'.
Aravan says (in common), 'but that is ok'.

Nazca says (in common), 'I think the assumption that is being made is that a change in equipment is gonig to change TFc's pking dynamics'.

Aravan says (in common), 'cause hafl the tiem you teleport you die anyways'.

Mael says (in common), 'well it will lower offensive power'.

Aravan says (in common), 'it wil'.

Mael says (in common), 'so we'll be weaker, everyone'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i think that new classes could throw off the balance some'.

Mael says (in common), 'harder for pkers to kill'.
Mael says (in common), 'harder for others to kill back'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'if people are worried about teleport vials.. make the vials un-givable to someone else.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'there is different types of PVP though'.

Aravan says (in common), 'and create a disequaliberum'.

Nazca says (in common), 'let us look at them'.
Nazca says (in common), '1. a hunt'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'if you have to go get yer own teleports, it'll cut down on the number of em.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'naw i think vials are fine'.

Nazca says (in common), 'where one or more intended to kill a single opponent'.

Mael says (in common), 'yeah no matter what a big group will kill fast'.

Nazca nods in recognition to Mael.

Aravan says (in common), 'just makes you have to be smart and steal them first'.

Mael says (in common), 'a group of four shamen is not that hard to put together'.

Nazca nods in recognition to Mael.

Rath says (in common), 'name four shaman in your following mael'.
Rath says (in common), 'of level 28 or greater'.

Mael says (in common), 'bubba allanon kel agralebean'.
Mael says (in common), 'all 30'.

Rath nods.

Aravan smirks.

Rath says (in common), 'now how many times have those 4 been on at the same time in the last 5 months?'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'refired agralebean?'.

Rath says (in common), 'for a period of more then 20 minutes'.

Aravan says (in common), 'smirk'.

Mael nods in recognition to Ptarchyzk.

Abe disappears into the void.
Clue peers into the void, searching for Abe.

Rath says (in common), 'it isn't easy to put together a big group..'.

Abe has returned from the void.

Rath says (in common), 'easier for some'.

Aravan says (in common), 'tynian do you have any other ideas pending?'.

Rath says (in common), 'but still'.

Nazca says (in common), 'in a hunt, you msut avoid detection, trap your opponent/attack at the most opportune time, remove your opponents ability to escape and kill them as fast s'.
Nazca says (in common), 'as possible'.

Mael says (in common), 'I think you would see it more, rath, if it were the most viable pking option'.

Aravan giggles.
Aravan nods.

Nazca says (in common), 'PVP is a different ball game'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i think the more diversity.. the better.. in classes and skills and such'.

Nazca says (in common), 'your goals are to remove the opponents protection spells'.

Aravan says (in common), 'that will change the balance of the game'.
Aravan says (in common), 'put even experienced players back to square one'.

Nazca says (in common), 'remove their ability to fight effectively, and then kill them before they cn recover hp/escape'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'ok.. hold on. Something just came to mind.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'hope not bird realated'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'this isn't necessarily bad for PK's, per se.. but it IS good for groups.. not only those who PK.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'in a pvp combat situation, a balanced set of equipment is critical to 1. keeping protection spells up, and 2. being able to fight effectively'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'one problem is that people don't like to, or cant go out alone.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'your wrong there'.

Nazca says (in common), 'becsue there are people who dont pk'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i agree ptarchyxk'.

Nazca says (in common), 'who have worked very hard to build nice sets of equipment - hundreds if not more hours'.

Aravan says (in common), 'that is a good point as well nazca'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'encouraging grouping for XP reasons is one aspect that this Dam/DA change does..'.

Aslan sits down and thinks deeply.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'yes Nazca.. I'm one of them.'.

Someone says, 'Does the new Store help with re-eqing now?'.

Clue says (in old-common), 'as am i'.

Nazca says (in common), 'yes'.

Aravan says (in common), 'dunno i havent used it'.

Mael says (in common), 'I think it's still pretty new '.

Abe says (in common), 'somewhat..'.

Mael says (in common), 'it will take a while for people to really use it'.

Cordir says, 'some folks are still reporting problems with Store and mish refusing to give back items.'

Aravan nods.

Zaaris says (in common), 'people will use it..just takes a bit of trust to keep +2's or better in there'.

Abe says (in common), 'The 10 item limit could be increased to 19, allowing for a full set to be stored.'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I don't keep things that need to be stored. If I find something nice that I can't use, I spread it around.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i think that the storeing eq.. will only help big players'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'the store thing simply encourages EQ hoarding, in my opinion.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'doest address the support of newbies'.

Mael says (in common), 'I agree with all of tynian's goals'.

Rath nods in recognition to Mael.

Nazca nods in recognition to Mael.

Abe nods in recognition to Mael.

Nazca says (in common), 'so do I'.

Rath says (in common), 'except for balance :P'.

Mael says (in common), 'I also am agravated with all of the waitstates and protections'.

Mael sits down and thinks deeply.

Nazca says (in common), 'in pking Mael?'.

Tynian says, 'FYI, the store limit probably will increase. 10 seemed like a good starting point.'.

Mael nods.

Abe beams a smile at Tynian.

Aravan nods.

Nazca says (in common), 'i think they're good right now'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i thikn that we need to disrupt the balance..'.
Aravan says (in common), 'that we have now'.

Nazca says (in common), 'its relatively easy to escape'.
Nazca says (in common), 'people need to feel like they can escape, so they will venture out'.

Mael says (in common), 'yeah it is'.

Aravan says (in common), 'so that it sets many of us back'.

Rath says (in common), 'quaff black/blue/green/whatever'.
Rath says (in common), 'you escape'.

Mael says (in common), 'how about this though'.

Nazca comforts Rath.

Rath says (in common), 'how about adding a failure rate to teleport :P'.
Rath says (in common), 'would make things interesting'.

Nazca grins wickedly.

Aravan smirks.

Mael says (in common), 'I think it's way to easy for me to find my target'.

Nazca says (in common), 'I just didnt want to be judged by you yesterday'.

Mael says (in common), 'If I want to find you I can'.

Nazca says (in common), 'yes mael'.

Rath grins evilly at Nazca.

Nazca says (in common), 'remove whoz'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i agree mael'.

Abe says (in common), 'So you're saying that escaping pk is a bad thing.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'but to change that would destroy the thief class'.

Mael says (in common), 'that's the biggest reason people can't be unmolested'.

Aravan nods.

Mael says (in common), 'because if I want to annoy you, there is no escaping me'.
Mael says (in common), 'well'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'Say.. what ever happened to the bad recalls to bad places? Used to be I always ended up in Demon Realm or Vile Rune. '.

Mael says (in common), 'unless you're scaring me'.

Abe says (in common), 'There are several larger views to this picture that I think are being missed.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'this is true.. so why not add more areas for the 20 pplus lvls'.

Rath leaves west.

Mael says (in common), 'areas take time'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'I don't think more areas would help'.

Aravan nods.

You nod in recognition to Mael.

Ammonia says (in common), 'unless you're going to add an order of magnitude more'.

Nazca says (in common), 'Iu think the who molo'.
Nazca sighs loudly.

Someone raises something gross that hangs over an empty eye socket.

Mael says (in common), 'and I will still just info you or vortex or portal around'.

Aravan says (in common), 'nod'.

Mael says (in common), 'I'll still find you, as would qith or maldo or whomoever'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i so how do you do that mael with out killing thief class?'.

Abe says (in common), 'In order to build a character, one must wear certain stats in order to grow. Dam/Da/svs are not on that list.'.

Mael says (in common), 'I don't know'.

Aravan nods.

Abe says (in common), 'In order to survice or kill, one must wear dam/da/svs'.

Mael says (in common), 'I'm just trying to identify the problem'.

Aravan nods.
Aravan nods in recognition to Abe.

Abe says (in common), 'In essence, you make a choice.'.

Abe says (in common), 'Either build to live/kill, or build to grow.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'so what are you suggesting abe?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'so the big problems that have been identified are?'.

Abe says (in common), 'I'm saying that a great many sacrifices are slready being made.'.

Aravan nods.
Aravan says (in common), 'for eq.. i agree'.

Someone says, 'Do the new pk ranges help? Level 50s not being able to attack level 25s?'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i dont think eq is the problem'.
Aravan says (in common), 'i think so.. '.

Ammonia says (in common), 'yes they do'.

Ptarchyzk shrugs.

Nazca says (in common), 'yes'.

You say, 'Yes.'.

Mael says (in common), 'they are a big help'.
Mael says (in common), 'huge'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I dunno.. as being over 30, I can gett attacked by everyone.'.

Mael says (in common), 'heh'.

Nazca says (in common), 'the new store system will work very well'.

Abe says (in common), 'The ranges help, yes, but only to the extent that people grow to a certain level, then it tapers off'.

Mael says (in common), 'well you're pretty big'.

Ptarchyzk laughs.
Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'why thank you Mael!'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i think that it will really help if there was another 3rd class...'.

Mael says (in common), 'level wise :-)'.

Someone says, 'Correct me if I am wrong, but has a level 18s range gone up though? Used to be only a 19- could attack...can't a 28 now attack him?'.

Mael says (in common), 'true'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'yes'.

Abe says (in common), 'Essentially instead of 19 being the hover point, it's 29 now.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'to add dieveristy not just thief clas for 3rd'.

Nazca says (in common), 'but its the level 50s that people are worried about'.
Nazca says (in common), 'when leveling pst 20'.
Nazca says (in common), 'Max chars with nothing else to do but pk'.

Mael says (in common), 'yeah and the 40's'.
Mael says (in common), 'so up to level 25 you're in pretty good shape'.

Tynian says, 'Granted, a new class or 3 would be nice... but that's a longer-term goal.'.

Aravan nods.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'that'd be wierd.. being tripple classed and still not having spells.'.
Ptarchyzk snickers softly.

Abe says (in common), 'It's a cycle that simply changes scope, but the end product is the same.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'I think that new class/spell/skill systems will achieve your goal in changing p vs p combat'.

Mael says (in common), 'how can you make it so I can't find a weaker passive character and spoil his day no matter what, without making it impossible to pk?'.

Tynian says, 'I disagree, and regardless, as I said, it's a longer-term goal.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i shtrr nazca'.

The Storytelling Amphitheater
[Exits: west]
You are in a small amphitheater. Several rows of curved marble benches
curl comfortably around a raised dais. The high ceiling and polished
stone walls are shaped to reflect the voice of the speaker at the dais,
letting them be heard throughout the room. An open archway to the west
leads out into a small courtyard.
A delicious magic mushroom is here.
(Token magic) A magical spring flows from the ground here.
(Light Blue Aura) Abe is here.
(Dark Cyan Aura) Ammonia is resting here.
(Light Blue Aura) Aslan is here.
Ptarchyzk is here.
(Intense Light Cyan Aura) Tynian is here.
(Dark Red Aura) (*Ally*) Mong is here.
Aravan is here.
Zaaris is here.
Clue is here.
(Light Red Aura) (*Ally*) Mael is here.
Nazca is resting here.

It is 2pm on Kelir the 24th, the month of Peaceful Co-existence,
in the year 2501.

TFC started up at Thu Nov 1 00:12:42 2001
The system time is Sun Nov 11 16:04:27 2001

Nazca says (in common), 'equipment changes wont address pvp combat IMO - because of the dynamics of the system'.

Abe says (in common), 'At the same time, why is the success of pk to most important focus of the game?'.
Abe says (in common), '*the'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'So far.. all that Tynian is proposing is requiring a more balanced set of gear to still be effective in a PK.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'it shouldnt be Abe'.
Nazca says (in common), 'heh'.
Nazca says (in common), 'your missing OUR point'.

Aravan says (in common), 'hurm... but i dont think that is an answer ptarchyzk'.

Abe smirks.

Nazca says (in common), 'you MUST wear a balanced set of equipment to fight effectively'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i think that will just frusterate people'.

Mong nods in recognition to Aravan.

Aravan says (in common), 'makes me confused as all heck'.

Nazca says (in common), 'the problem with equipping to be a straight killer, is that you cn be killed asily'.

Aravan says (in common), 'nod'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'only if your prey can last long enough to fight back, Nazca'.

Aravan says (in common), 'why not add new types of eq'.
Aravan says (in common), 'to balance it'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'if you reduce the ammount of Dam you are wearing, but increase the ammount of Hit, you still hit overall for the same amount of damamge per round, cause w'.

Abe says (in common), 'Not true, Nazca.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'there are maybe 5 characters that possess exceptional sets of equipment'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'with more hit you hit more often..'.

Mael leaves west.

Abe says (in common), 'If you have a distinct effective level difference, you can kill easily.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'not true nazca depends on what you value'.

Nazca says (in common), 'from a PVP point of view, yes this is the case, Abe'.
Nazca nods in recognition to Abe.
Nazca says (in common), 'I dont think eff levels should come into play with hit roll calculations'.
Nazca says (in common), 'it should be primary class levels'.

Abe says (in common), 'This is how the majority of large pk'ers gain success over time.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'why nazca?'.

Abe says (in common), 'Prey on the weak, grow stronger as a result'.

Nazca says (in common), 'because currently, level 40s dont feel they can fight level 50s'.

Aravan says (in common), 'they lvled.. and lvling sucks.. why not have an advantage?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'becuyse the level 50s "will hit 3 times as much"'.

Aravan says (in common), 'nod'.
Aravan says (in common), 'they exp 3 times as much'.

Nazca says (in common), 'therefore you are seeing the effect of people not leavcing saferooms'.

Mael arrives from the west.

Nazca says (in common), 'becuse they think they cant win'.

Aravan says (in common), 'they cant smirk'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'Nazca, most aren't trying to win'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'a 40 warric should be able to stand up to a 50 warrior/mage/thief '.

Ammonia says (in common), 'they just want to get away, and they think they can't do that'.

Abe says (in common), 'I agree. I already know I can't win the pk game. I'm too small and I'm not eq'ed for it.'.

Tynian nods in recognition to Ammonia.

Nazca says (in common), 'we're not discussing HUNTING'.

Clue says (in old-common), 'i don't THINK i can't .... i KNOW i can't, unless i can escape'.

Aravan says (in common), 'you shouldnt win the pk game.. at a small lvll'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'but hunting is the problem'.

Terenas arrives from the west.

Nazca says (in common), 'a person that is hunted _always_ tries to escape'.

Abe says (in common), 'So if I don't have a chance to win, then loss or tie is the only other choice'.

Mael says (in common), 'changing eq hurts everyone'.

Aravan says (in common), 'so why not change the debt system'.

Mael says (in common), 'I hope there is a more direct answer'.

Ptarchyzk sighs loudly.

Nazca says (in common), 'if pvp combat wsa left to arenas, I think it would be a blow to TFC, and mael is right'.

Aravan says (in common), 'so that it removes safe from serial killers'.
Aravan says (in common), 'makes them move vulneralbe'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i aggre nazka'.

Tynian says, '1) You'll have to support that assertion, Mael, and 2) Let's hear it. So far, I haven't heard a better idea..'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I still don't understand how a more balanced set of gear hurts the game any,'.

Mael says (in common), 'ok'.
Mael says (in common), 'well if I have to remove damage to wear hit'.

Tynian says, 'only people that say that now isn't a problem, or that the change doesn't matter.'.

Mael says (in common), 'everyone else is too'.
Mael says (in common), 'so we're all that much weaker'.

Nazca says (in common), 'how often thave you played recently ptarchyzk with other charcters etc?'.

Mael says (in common), 'same with da/svs'.
Mael says (in common), 'now as to the solution'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i agree mael'.

Jessica says (in common), 'How about introducing a PK/Non-PK flag so players can choose if they wish to participate in PKing'.

Mael says (in common), 'I'm thinking I reallyam'.

Nazca waves goodbye to Jessica.
Nazca beams a smile at Jessica.
Nazca says (in common), 'hehe'.

Aravan says (in common), 'i think that it will hurt the players that are trying to wear enought dmg to exp with lvl eq'.

Mael says (in common), 'what is the purpose of whozone?'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I play other chars, and with other people all the time.'.

Mael says (in common), 'I've never thought of removing it, but what is its purpose?'.

Aravan says (in common), 'you wont be able to balance eq.. and wear lvl gear and exp'.

Abe says (in common), 'Personally, I would like to see leveling gear be more affective against pk. Both spells and swings.'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'you don't need a lot of damage to xp'.

Nazca says (in common), 'whozone removal would be good'.

Mael says (in common), 'what would happen if we removed whozone but made all players visible on who?'.

Abe frowns at what Nazca did.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'swapping out some damage for +hit gear doens't reduce the ammount of damage you do, cause you hit more often.'.

Nazca nods in recognition to Mael.

Tynian says, 'No, it wouldn't'.

Clue says (in old-common), 'multi-stat eq?'.

Tynian says, 'Victims use whozone to determine when to recall.'.

Aravan says (in common), 'gotta run'.
Aravan says (in common), 'good luck'.
Aravan leaves west.

Abe nods.

Mael says (in common), 'hrm'.
Mael nods.
Mael says (in common), 'hunters use it to find'.

Ptarchyzk nods.

Nazca says (in common), 'this is true'.

Abe says (in common), 'That's balance'.

Mael says (in common), 'obscure is as much or more defensive than offensive'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'Whoz is my life.'.

Mael says (in common), 'but with god invis, hide, obscure'.

Nazca says (in common), 'but tynian'.

Abe says (in common), 'Actually, the way ravaged uses it, it's many more times offensive'.

Mael says (in common), 'whoz is so unreliable anyway'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'unreliable, how so?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'you said your gaol was to see people to stick around and not flee as soon as they sighted pkers'.

Tynian says, 'And while the hunter can go to zone, summon, repeat, a victim cannot.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'and once summoned or attacked, it is VERY easy to escape'.

Abe says (in common), 'That depends, Nazca.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'in most cases'.

Abe says (in common), 'People that don't pk, don't know how to prepare against it.'.

Tynian says, 'Nazca, you seem to have misunderstood. Another one of my decisions is for the victim to always have a chance.'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I don't PK and I know how to avoid it.. for the most part.'.

Tynian says, 'And I disagree with your point, regardless.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'but people who have been pked, and who have been taught what to do know'.

Abe says (in common), 'So being pk'ed as a lesson tool would be required?'.

Tynian says, 'As I told Craige, some will insta-recall (particularly now), but we trim off the extremes...'.
Tynian says, 'people will stick around more'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'since the who just command has been implimented, my perm list is rather short.'.

Mael sighs loudly.

Nazca says (in common), 'its up to the pkers to regulat the pkers'.

Mael says (in common), 'brb'.
Mael leaves west.

Anduin laughs.

Terenas says (in common), 'the pkers will not regulate the pkrs'.

Someone says, 'Shouldn't big blue pkers police the nasty evil ones?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'in 2.x and early 3.x there was a balance of aggressive pkers from both alignemnts/alliances'.

Abe says (in common), 'It doesn't work that way, invis imm.'.

Terenas says (in common), 'big blue pkrs will never be able to police the nasty ones'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'they used to.'.

Silence ftells, '*in sign* can i get a det invis please cordir'.

Terenas says (in common), 'the fact is more pkrs gravitate towards evil because it suits them better'.

Nazca says (in common), 'they used to be able to terenas, what happened?'.

Abe says (in common), 'The professional pk'ers want a fol where they are unrestricted. This means evil'.

Anduin utters the words, 'protection evil'.

Terenas says (in common), 'they used to, and the reason why is because it was actually fun to be in a good following'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'big blues took out the big reds who were always offing those who couldn't defend themselves .'.

Abe says (in common), 'er.. or neutral now I understand'.

Tynian says, 'And scrolling back, a moment.'.

Terenas says (in common), 'and the good side was huge'.

Nazca says (in common), 'then is this what we need to change terenas?'.

Mael arrives from the west.

Terenas says (in common), 'what changed was this....'.

Someone says, 'Would there be more incentive to be a blue defender type pker if they had more powers?'.

Nazca nods.

Terenas says (in common), 'alot of the good players left when 3.x went in'.

Boyardee mutters angrily to himself.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'there used to be.'.

Boyardee smirks.

Abe says (in common), 'Good got some restrictions... ordained came along.. lots of changes were made'.

Nazca says (in common), 'why did they leave terenas'.

Boyardee says (in common), 'like...paladins?'.

Tynian says, 'and back'.

Terenas says (in common), 'because they thought 3.x sucked'.

Someone pokes Boyardee in the ribs.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'Paladins were the biggest big Red killers around.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'they didnt like the changes'.
Nazca says (in common), 'right?'.

Terenas nods.
Terenas says (in common), 'yup'.

Tynian says, 'Bottom line is, I let things evolve how they made'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'And they were taken out as a class.'.

Tynian says, 'The PKing part of the game has overshadowed the others.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'TFC is currently hungry for playrs'.

Mael sits down and thinks deeply.

Tynian says, 'Historically, this was less of a problem.'.

Mael says (in common), 'part of it is the players fault'.
Mael says (in common), 'we have grown self-interested and cynicla'.

Tynian says, 'We can talk about the whys, but ultimately, it needs to be fixed.'.

Mael nods.

Abe says (in common), 'Suggestion: Level based damage cap.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'I dont think you can code players - terenas said it used to be fun playing in blue followings'.

Mael sits down and thinks deeply.

Abe says (in common), 'Let the 50s swing 100 on each other'.

Nazca says (in common), 'mael says more people are focused om themselves'.

Mael says (in common), 'player damage max of 1/5 of your xp?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'and not the game'.

Terenas nods in recognition to Nazca.

Mael says (in common), 'I'm including myself'.

Abe says (in common), 'There are lots of ways to look at it'.

Mael says (in common), 'guys who have been around sometimes ignore the occasional pesky newbie'.

Nazca says (in common), 'we assumed that of course ;>'.
Nazca grins wickedly at Mael.

Abe says (in common), 'Mathematically, that is'.

Mael says (in common), 'er 1/5 your hp'.

Abe nods.

Mael says (in common), 'like no matter what, you can't do more than 1/5 to me in one hit?'.

Tynian says, 'I can't code players, but if I must, I can code expectations.'.

Abe says (in common), 'Right'.

Tynian says, 'Obviously, it's _not_ self-balanced.'.
Tynian says, 'If it were, I'd be OVERJOYED to leave it alone.'.

Terenas says (in common), 'maybe you should get rid of dam completely =) make swings be determined by lvl and other equipment'.

Nazca says (in common), 'the changes such as store and the new pk range have been excellent ones'.

Tynian says, 'I have other things I'd like to work on.'.
Tynian says, 'But I cannot.'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'Red PKer's have historically had the advantage.. If the Fjust's were used correctly, that advantage would be reduced.'.

Abe says (in common), 'Actually, in time, even the fjusts don't really matter.'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'remove dam and da, have 80% of damage be based on class/levels a level 30 warrior should be able to pick up a rusty sword and do fairly well'.

Mael says (in common), 'does my hp relative to damage cap idea make any sense?'.

Abe says (in common), 'Once the professional pk'er reaches level 50, he's quite adept at avoiding his hunters and killing his prey'.

Tynian says, 'fjusts have little impact on higher levels'.

Zaaris says (in common), '20% on str/dex , and skills'.

Terenas nods in recognition to Zaaris.

Abe says (in common), 'fjusts notwithstanding'.

Nazca says (in common), 'zaaris has offered an interesting solution, which would require A LOT of work'.

Tynian says, 'I wanted to avoid caps, as it further reduces options.'.
Tynian says, 'But, if a cap is better, I'd consider it.'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'not a lot of work, just balance'.

Terenas says (in common), 'just get rid of dam =)'.

Abe smirks.

Mael says (in common), 'I'd rather see a ratio of max damage specific to players than a change in eq'.

Abe says (in common), 'I just say cap it, that's all'.

Mael says (in common), '1/5 of a person's hp's is a LOT'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'a cap would need to be different for those with enhanced damage to those without'.

Abe says (in common), 'A level based damage cap would make battles in pvp combat alot more interesting'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'why are the Fjusts not working out?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'possibly'.
Nazca says (in common), 'but group combat is damn fun'.
Nazca says (in common), 'even if you lose - its not a horrible way to die'.

Someone says, 'How would you balance a level based damage with different class spells or warriors vs rangers?'.

Tynian says, 'Mael, BTW, it would _not_ be 1/5 of hp.'.
Tynian says, 'I can see your hps, who are you trying to fool?'.

Mael says (in common), 'good point with the ranger thing, Molo'.
Mael says (in common), 'fool?'.

Tynian says, 'AFK a moment'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'if a level 50 kills a follower, they are on the Fjust list. If you have 3 30+'s go after em, they should have the advantage.'.

Mael says (in common), 'I must have communicated poorly'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'is this not how the fjust's are supposed to work?'.

Mael says (in common), 'and the ranger thing is a great point'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'multipliers for damage and hitroll based on level/class , max damage per warrior level could be 1, max daamge per mage level could be .5 x level'.

Mael says (in common), 'maybe make it damage in a round'.

Someone says, 'One Conclave level 50 can kill 3 blue level 30s'.

Nazca says (in common), 'in most cases even the best equipped character is going to have trouble with 2 mid-highly equipped groups players'.

Terenas says (in common), 'every class would need a dmg scale for every lvl'.

Nazca looks at Mael.
Nazca says (in common), 'how hard do you swing mael'.

Mael says (in common), 'about 85 avg'.
Mael says (in common), 'I think'.

Nazca says (in common), 'and you have some saves?'.

Mael says (in common), 'still a pretty new set'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'Molo.. is one level 50 unjustified can kill 3 level 30's that are justified.. then there is a problem with the fjust coding.'.

Mael says (in common), 'yeah decent saves'.
Mael says (in common), 'amulet of nydia helps'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'being justified doesn't do much'.
Ammonia says (in common), 'unless I'm missing something'.

Someone responds to Ptarchyzk with a shrug.

Nazca says (in common), 'ho easy is it to improve your equipment and jump to lets say 95 while keeping a balanced set of saves?'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'if being justified doesn't do much, then i see a problem.'.

Abe says (in common), 'being justified only effects debt unless you're ordained'.

Mael says (in common), 'would be really hard'.
Mael says (in common), 'I'm at a sort of soft ceiling righ tnow'.

Someone says, 'fjust isn't going to change how an experienced level 50 deals with opponents'.

Abe nods his head in agreement.

Terenas nods.
Terenas says (in common), 'fjust is nothing imho'.

Abe nods his head in agreement.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'a level 30 doesn't mean they inexperienced.'.

Terenas says (in common), 'it has hardly any affect in this realm'.

Mael sits down and thinks deeply.
Mael says (in common), 'I'm trying to be a free thinker here :P'.

Abe says (in common), 'experience vs eq/effective levels isn't an even match'.

Mael says (in common), 'if we overall lessened the benefits of eq'.

Tynian says, 'And catching up...'.
Tynian chuckles, evidently amused.

Mael says (in common), 'well it would suck for me first off'.
Mael says (in common), 'but if we did'.
Mael says (in common), 'then it would lessen the gap between experienced and inexperienced'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'part of the issue is that PK'ers want to still be able to kill, while those who are PK'ed want to be able to get away, or retaliate.'.

Nazca nods.
Nazca says (in common), 'tactics would simply change'.

Mael says (in common), 'right, but the inherent disadvantages would lessen'.

Nazca says (in common), 'new tools would be built, and the same situation that is trying to be address will reappear'.

Mael says (in common), 'but a lot of other things would suffer'.
Mael says (in common), 'less reason to kill, less was to differentiate yourself and achieve'.
Mael says (in common), 'er less ways'.

Nazca says (in common), 'we were talking earlier about an idea of mobs casting more intelligently'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'ok.. here's an idea, Tynian.'.

Cordir says, 'Ptar has a good point. No NON-PK-style player will ever be happy about being PK'd. No PKer will ever be happy if they cannot pk. Bottom line.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'and silence/quiet being removed or lessened in effectiveness'.
Nazca says (in common), 'who would equip in uber damage?'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'instead of an overall dam/da change.. what about using the justified/unjustified code more effective?'.

Mael says (in common), 'well I would'.
Mael says (in common), 'honestly'.
Mael says (in common), 'though saves would be more important'.

Abe says (in common), 'justs don't address pvp combat in the least unless you're ordained'.

Mael says (in common), 'er even more important'.

Nazca says (in common), 'what if mobs coould engage, rescue or targeted unsancted opponents'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'unjustified attackers get a penalty to their dam/da stuff.'.

Mael says (in common), 'heh xp would be a lot harder'.
Mael says (in common), 'but it takes SO long to get to 50 right now'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'justified people get a bonus.'.

Mael says (in common), 'I like smarter mobs, but I'd want more xp for them'.

Someone says, 'It takes less time to get to 50 now than it ever did'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'since usually the unjust's have better EQ to kill weaker opps anyway.'.

Abe nods his head in agreement.

Terenas says (in common), 'heh'.

Mael says (in common), 'well that's true'.

Terenas says (in common), 'who has made it to 50 in 500hrs or less in 3.x?'.

Mael says (in common), 'health amulets, mobmasteries, lots of reasons'.

Abe says (in common), 'Kandrell'.

Mael says (in common), 'link is great for xp'.

Nazca says (in common), 'heh im set to ;>'.

Ptarchyzk snickers softly.

Nazca says (in common), 'although ive lsot 20 hours from sitting around or randoming ;>'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), '1700 hours and not even eff 35.'.

Terenas says (in common), 'i doubt we have the same no of lvl 50s as we had in 2.x'.

Ammonia coughs.

Zaaris says (in common), '98 hours, eff 25'.

Someone says, 'If we compare the current TFC to the one when we had a hundred online at once, players now are much more powerful and leveling is much easier'.

Mael says (in common), 'that's because you looked at the way to be powerful'.
Mael says (in common), 'and ignored it :-)'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'there are heaps more now aren't there?'.

Mael says (in common), 'true'.

Abe says (in common), 'Well back then pk was alot harder'.

Terenas says (in common), 'i certainly do not believe lvlin is more easier than 2.x'.

Nazca grins wickedly at Mael.

Mael says (in common), 'well in 2.x'.

Nazca says (in common), 'i dont think it was easier back then'.

Mael says (in common), 'you had to hit like 24'.
Mael says (in common), 'then mg group'.

Someone says, 'Before 3.x, there wasn't anyone who hit harder than 60'.

Nazca says (in common), 'as players we've all learned a whole lot since then'.

Terenas says (in common), 'now you have to wear lvl eq most of the time'.

Abe nods.

Terenas says (in common), 'except ozzy =)'.

Someone says, 'and nobody but a paladin had near 500gp'.

Nazca says (in common), 'what about them demo rangers ;>'.

Mael says (in common), 'the prevalence of 3dam eq made a big difference'.

Someone says, 'Ozzy would have to borrow eq to get above 55'.

Terenas chuckles, evidently amused.
Terenas says (in common), 'ozzy annhilated in 2.x'.

Tynian shrugs.

Mael says (in common), '3dams are like 2dams used to be'.

Terenas says (in common), 'with borrowed eq'.

Abe says (in common), 'So.. instead of changing eq, create a level-based damage cap.'.

Tynian says, 'Once you got to a certain point, it ceased to matter'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'yes.. eq ratings have gone up in 3.x'.

Tynian says, 'PKers tend to be much better equipped.'.

Abe agrees with Tynian 100%.

You nod in recognition to him.

Mael says (in common), 'it's a lot easier to equip by taking somone elses'.

You say, 'They 'random' by gathering 'presorted bags of eq.

Nazca says (in common), 'why not increase the frequencies of random equipment, and allow for more multi stat items like in 2.x'.

Mael says (in common), 'for sure'.

Tynian says, 'Remember in earlier 3.x, +dam randoms were rare'.

Abe nods.

Tynian says, 'My hope was that they would fall out of circulation'.

Mong nods.

Tynian says, 'Well, they did'.

Nazca says (in common), 'that was probably the worst time i can remmeber on TFC ;>'.

Tynian says, 'Only the killers had +dam worth having.'.

Mael says (in common), 'randoming sucked then'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'yes.. but when they popped, they tended to pop big.'.

Mael says (in common), 'the only way to hit hard was to kill'.

Nazca says (in common), 'what happened then was that the killers gained control'.
Nazca says (in common), 'because no one had a way of recovering '.

Terenas says (in common), 'starved practically everyone'.

Abe says (in common), 'There are more sets of dam now, but as always, the eq always circulates to the pk followings'.

Mael says (in common), 'yeah that was bad'.

Tynian says, 'I don't see that increasing pop rate of eq or making it even better will serve my goals'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I'm certainly not asking that.'.

Tynian says, 'Again, the PKing group will have the best of the best, and swing even bigger.'.

Abe nods.

You nod in recognition to him.

Zaaris says (in common), 'could have had every other random be a +1dam, you'd just have to have almost no +2's or better'.

Nazca says (in common), 'im 100% certain that putting better stuff out there, more often will draw 90% of the player base out'.
Nazca says (in common), 'out of the safesitting mentality'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'not a solution for our current situation because so much gear is in circulation'.

Tynian says, 'So, it's almost sounding like I'll have to break the back of PKing. Not that answer I was looking for.'.
Tynian sighs loudly.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'yes.. they get out more, and get killed more.. "presorted bags of EQ"'.

Nazca says (in common), 'not if the dymanics of pking changed, or new types of magiucal equipment was added'.

Mael says (in common), 'the only eq worth wearing is dex/str to max, your leveling gear, svs to like -15, then all damage'.
Mael says (in common), 'maybe if there were a reason to wear other stuff?'.

Nazca nods in recognition to Mael.

Tynian says, 'Bah. We've tried that, Nazca'.

Abe says (in common), 'There's one main reason for safesitting: You don't want someone with 20 effective levels on you swinging 80'.

Nazca says (in common), 'DA has ben effective'.

Tynian says, 'When random stuff went up last time, it was a bonanza... for a short time.'.

Someone says, 'ok, a character purge sounds like the thing to do.'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'leveling gear? sheesh.. I havn't used that since I was under 20.'.

Terenas snickers softly.

Ammonia says (in common), 'hehe, a character purge would be nifty'.

Terenas says (in common), 'character purge would not affect things'.

Mael says (in common), 'hehehe'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'ya, change the random code and purge all chars'.

Mong gasps as he realizes what Ammonia did.

Terenas says (in common), 'the same people would rule the realm regardless'.

Nazca grins wickedly at someone.

Mael says (in common), 'character purge would be fun for like a week'.

Terenas says (in common), 'under the same set of rules'.

You say, 'There would be a giant race to see who got what limiteds first'.

Abe nods.

Mael says (in common), 'ok let's get to realistic options'.

Terenas nods.

Nazca nods.

Mael says (in common), 'this is too much chit chat'.
Mael says (in common), 'by me mostly :P'.

Terenas says (in common), 'i still like my option of gettin rid of dam permenatly'.

Terenas grins to himself. What IS he thinking about...?!

Abe says (in common), 'Does anyone disagree with a level-based damage cap?'.

Tynian says, 'A purge means nothing, if we can't avoid being in this place again.'.
Tynian smirks.

Gwen gossips (in common), 'I need a cure I'm sick'.

Someone says, 'What about just an eq purge with less high end eq popping?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'I think the most important thing that has been said is what terenas and mael said earlier'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I still think that changing the justified codes to affect dam/da/svs/hit would be more effective. Allows the Pker's to still kill'.
Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'while allowing those killed to have some way to retaliate.'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'it's too late after I've been killed :)'.

Tynian nods in recognition to Ammonia.

Zaaris says (in common), 'if the purge only took randoms, would avoid the 'rush for limiteds', less pain for those who have them'.

Mael says (in common), 'ok how about this'.

Someone says, 'How does this sound?'.

Mael says (in common), 'and maybe it makes no sense'.

Ptarchyzk rolls his eyes.
Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'all my gear is randoms.'.

Mael says (in common), 'the option to turn off your whoz, and make yourself obscure?'.

Someone says, 'It will take a minute to explain so please wait before responding'.

Mael nods.

Mael is waiting.

Ammonia says (in common), 'I like that Mael'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'mine too, but change for a better long run may hurt in the short run'.

Someone says, 'Eliminate the level restrictions on pking.'.
Someone says, 'Redo the pk, pt debt system'.
Someone says, 'so that a level 50 can kill a level 15 but with consequences'.
Someone says, 'Make the bounty hunters automatically handle anyone whose debt gets out of control'.

Cordir says, 'people would leave en masse'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'ya Mael, allow them to turn off whoz, but to keep it off, have to get x amount of xp per day'.

Mael says (in common), 'hmm'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'like the limited code'.

Someone says, 'Automatic jail time and no chance of escape'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'you want em, you have to work to keep them'.

Nazca says (in common), 'the problem is with area spells though'.

Abe says (in common), 'This effectively ensures that tfc would not attract certain types of players.'.
Abe says (in common), 'tfc becomes a pure pk mud'.

Nazca says (in common), 'youd have the reverse to the big 50 guy waiting for the level 10 to area spells'.
Nazca says (in common), 'ive seen a similar system work on a mud with 100 active players daily'.

Someone says, 'Killers naturally having more debt would allow them to be attacked with less debt earned'.

Mael says (in common), 'I'm thinking of a whoz switch that would give you the benefit of being able to get off whozone, but to use it periodically for defense'.

Nazca says (in common), 'so Molo's suggestion does have quite a lot of merit'.

Abe says (in common), 'People who wear leveling gear would be penalized even further'.

Someone says, 'How so?'.

Abe says (in common), 'WIth no range buffer, they are simply sheep'.

Cordir says, 'I would not wish to play in that type of environment. Nor would many.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'what does level eq have to do with pking or the debt system?'.

Someone says, 'The range buffer would be handled by debt'.

Abe says (in common), 'How so?.. with no level restrictions, you're still a target'.

Someone says, 'Debt would actually make a difference'.

Nazca says (in common), 'i've heard of characters who cant walk through mg without slue attacking them'.
Nazca says (in common), 'what if there were these big mobs in all hometowns and on main travel routs'.
Nazca says (in common), 'like GWR'.
Nazca says (in common), 'its VERY effective'.

Someone says, 'A level 14 would be protected simply because that level 40 would end up serving hours and hours of jail time'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'they would have to wander'.

Terenas says (in common), 'debt would have to totally wreck a character to make this effective'.

Abe says (in common), 'Yes but they would still die'.
Abe says (in common), 'and fast'.

Tynian says, 'So, all you'd need is gold, and you're set, right?'.

Terenas says (in common), 'and what players want to play and get their character wrecked?'.

Cordir says, 'but would the level 40 loose their equipment? The level 14 would still loose his corpse and leave the game.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'maybe an immortal based redemption sustem'.
Nazca shivers uncomfortably.

Someone says, 'Only so much gold exists in the realm, killing low levels would suck it right out the window'.

Nazca says (in common), 'i just thought abut that and its ugly nm ;>'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'if jail time is earned, recycle the killers EQ.'.

Terenas says (in common), 'gold is not that difficult to get'.

Nazca says (in common), 'you cant "gold" like you used to be able to'.

Myronides arrives from the west.

Terenas says (in common), 'this realm also produces x amount of gold every day'.

Mael says (in common), 'my head is swimming a little, afk to grab a sandwich'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'that way, when they get out, they have to start all over again, but with a reduced PK range.'.

Cordir says, 'that depends on alignment and PK model, Terenas.'.

Someone says, 'Perhaps Ptar - if that was needed. Too much debt. Lose your corpse.'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'it's a way to prevent someone from just hanging out with all the uber eq.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'i think theres one misconeption that a lot of people are making also'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'killers get stronger with the weaks eq.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'is that pkers are they only ones that can get good eq, or jkust people with friends'.
Nazca says (in common), 'that are pkers heh'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'purge the killers eq occasionally, that makes it harder for the killers to kill all they come across.'.

Terenas says (in common), 'pkrs are usually the ones with the Best EQ'.

Nazca says (in common), 'yesterday i found 3dam ring, 3dam 1int bracelet and -5svs ac1 gloves'.

Terenas says (in common), 'and you may lose it tomorrow =)'.

Nazca says (in common), 'yes'.
Nazca says (in common), 'but thats the risk i take by playing - i know if i die, i will recover'.

Tynian says, 'And someone will take it from you, unless you stay in safe when those in the high part of your range are around...'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'yes, but how many pieces like that are found in newbie zones?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'no'.
Nazca says (in common), 'ive been attcked by "the best"'.

Torchbearer smirks.

Tynian says, 'or you're friends with TFC's biggest PK following.'.

Myronides nods in recognition to Tynian.

Abe agrees with Tynian 100%.

Tynian says, 'Unless, you have extraordinary skill'.

You nod in recognition to him.

Ptarchyzk smirks.

Myronides says (in common), 'Do you know I actually have exping active chars'.
Myronides says (in common), 'I just can only play them at 4am :)'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'yay! I have skill!'.
Ptarchyzk snickers softly.

Terenas nods in recognition to Tynian.
Terenas cackles gleefully at Myronides.

Ammonia chuckles at Myronides's joke.

Tynian says, 'It doesn't matter if the first, second, or even the 10th doesn't get ya...'.
Tynian says, 'they just need to get you before you swing 70+'.

Nazca says (in common), 'eventually somethings going to happen and you lose it'.
Nazca says (in common), 'people that swing 100 can die'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'very few avoid ever being killed. VERY few.'.

Terenas says (in common), 'id say its pretty difficult for a lvl 50 swingin 100 to die'.

Nazca says (in common), 'well, if the playerbase all want no PK - you should give it a shot'.

Tynian says, 'Yes, they _can_ die'.

Terenas says (in common), 'they are often very skilled'.

Tynian says, 'But that's not really the point.'.

Abe says (in common), 'Perhaps tie debt into the frequency of bad recall/portal'.

Myronides says (in common), 'only to another swinging 100hp'.
Myronides utters the words, 'armor'.

Abe says (in common), 'no debt = no bad recalls'.

Terenas chuckles, evidently amused.

Tynian says, 'Okay, Nazca, you've aggravated me.'.

Terenas says (in common), 'Everyone eventually dies? I do not agree with that'.

Mael says (in common), 'I think a non-rule based thing that would help'.

Nazca says (in common), 'okay - i agree that i was being an ass'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'I know of a character that got to 30/30 without being pked'.

Terenas says (in common), 'I have many characters that have either never died or only died once in the 7 times ive been playing'.
Terenas says (in common), 'er 7 years'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'in 2.x though'.

Mael says (in common), 'would be more available info to newbies'.
Mael says (in common), 'practical player info'.
Mael says (in common), 'sample triggers, mud client advice, area informatino'.

Nazca says (in common), 'it seems like the focus is on players workjing hard to gather equipment then losing it to pkers'.

Cordir says, 'That could be put on the TFC website '.
Cordir nods in recognition to Mael.

Nazca says (in common), '1. store/mish/and randoming together are super effective'.

Mael utters the words, 'detect invis'.

Myronides says (in common), 'well the problem is the game is about eq. that's it'.

Terenas nods in recognition to Myronides.

Mael says (in common), 'eq IS huge'.

Nazca says (in common), 'yup'.

Myronides says (in common), 'it IS the game'.

Mael says (in common), 'eq is both the means and the reward'.

Terenas says (in common), 'just wipe out damage, make hits totally dependant upon lvl and weapon avg'.

Boyardee chuckles, evidently amused.

Terenas says (in common), 'then make other stats worth more in a fight'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'but then everyone is the same Terenas'.

Nazca says (in common), 'what about a proficiency based damage system'.

Terenas says (in common), 'who care ammonia?'.
Terenas says (in common), 'er cares'.

Tynian says, 'We could do that, Terenas, and that would address the immedicate concern. Any objections?'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'me'.

Nazca says (in common), 'then players with the best strategy etc win'.

Myronides says (in common), 'I like it'.
Myronides snickers softly.

Ammonia says (in common), 'I'm a cleric/thief because I don't want to be just like everyone else'.

Myronides says (in common), 'but I have enough levels'.

Nazca says (in common), 'theres one problem with it'.

Mael says (in common), 'make damage level based?'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'would that be PvP only?'.

Abe says (in common), 'No. I don't disagree. Dam has become far too unbalancing.'.

Mael says (in common), 'well it sounds fine'.
Mael says (in common), 'but what reward is there to pking?'.

Nazca nods in recognition to Mael.

Boyardee says (in common), 'steaks?'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'mostly level based (80%) and the other 20% be str, skills etc'.

Abe says (in common), 'Other eq, Mael.'.

Mael ruffles Boyardee's hair playfully.
Mael says (in common), 'yeah there would be other eq'.

Nazca says (in common), 'WHAT other eq?'.

Myronides says (in common), 'You knwo what helps a bit'.
Myronides says (in common), 'a crackdown on storage chars'.

Mael sits down and thinks deeply.

Someone says, 'Making damage level based would be hard with the various spell casting classes and warriors vs rangers'.

Myronides says (in common), 'and don't allow gods to hold eq in inv'.

Tynian says, 'The chance to prove your skill? Knowing that you ruined someone's day? Hmm, I don't know'.

Tynian snickers softly.

Myronides utters the words, 'true seeing'.

Torchbearer nods in recognition to someone.

Zaaris says (in common), 'could i turn my +dam eq into +xp equipment? :)'.

Terenas says (in common), 'it would be hard, but it COULD be done'.

Abe says (in common), 'If you cap that damage based on eff level, it wouldn't be difficult at all.'.

Terenas says (in common), 'it would just take someone to annalize it'.

Mael says (in common), 'terenas you might be right'.
Mael says (in common), 'I have to think on it'.
Mael says (in common), 'had never considered'.

Tynian says, 'I have no way to identify a "storage" character'.

Terenas says (in common), 'make all the other stats more important too'.

Nazca says (in common), 'how feasible is it to consider changes as big as this Tynian?'.

Tynian says, 'Unfortunately, they don't often wear big signs on them that say "delete me".'.

Abe says (in common), 'But honestly, elimination of dam gear altogether might be the way to go.'.

Solaron says (in common), 'Use the same intiative you're using to identify newbie killers then.'.

Myronides says (in common), 'character that neve rplays but has a ton of 3dams in inv :)'.
Myronides says (in common), 'and I'm sure if you asked around'.
Myronides says (in common), 'people ccould name a TON of storage chars'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'so.. an eff 50 comes along and attacks me. they still ahve 16 levles on me, and prolly a better weapon, and more HP.'.

Cordir says, 'storage characters can be located by checking exp ranges over time - have they actually changed levels'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I still lose out in a one on one.'.

Mong says (in common), 'Level based damage? But what about folks like myself who can never be 50th.. We wont be able to compete with those that can be :('.

Abe says (in common), 'Never Mong?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'you dont need storage chars'.

Abe says (in common), 'I see room for a thief in there'.

Terenas says (in common), 'mong, u want 25k to dual right now?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'nor do you need to pk to gather equipment'.

Solaron says (in common), 'He's an Ogre'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'he's an ogre'.

Myronides says (in common), 'um he can't riple'.

Solaron says (in common), 'Ogres can't be thieves.'.

Boyardee says (in common), 'ogres can't be thieves'.

Myronides says (in common), 'he's an ogre'.

Terenas snickers softly.

Abe says (in common), 'oh yeah'.
Abe blushes.

Solaron grins happily at Abe.

Torchbearer smirks at Abe's saying.

Mong says (in common), 'I'd be 50th now if I could be'.

Terenas says (in common), 'what were you thinking mong?! =P'.

Ammonia wonders if there is something wrong with Abe's sense of smell.

Abe beams a smile at Mong.

Mael says (in common), 'I would be interested in trying the no damage thing for like a week'.

Tynian says, 'We don't have a rule that says that you must xp, or xp and lose your equipment.'.

Myronides says (in common), 'To many people play the game with only the goal of ruining other peoples enjoyment of the game'.
Myronides says (in common), 'and that's always going to be there, so we're scrwed'.
Myronides nods at himself; he must be getting senile.

Terenas nods in recognition to Myronides.

Abe says (in common), 'Yeah.. the no damage gear would level it out.. even for Mong'.

Boyardee says (in common), 'heck, taxes were implemented just to fix the over-eq problem originally'.

Boyardee chuckles, evidently amused.

Terenas says (in common), 'ugh taxes'.
Terenas says (in common), 'dont remind me of those limited taxes'.

Boyardee says (in common), 'the great repop of 96!'.
Boyardee chuckles, evidently amused.

Someone says, 'Those people who make TFC a challenge are part of TFC's challenge.'.

Torchbearer nods.

Ammonia says (in common), 'heh, that was 96?'.

Boyardee nods.

Ammonia says (in common), 'I've wasted my life!'.

Nazca grins wickedly.

Myronides says (in common), 'that was true'.

Ammonia runs out screaming.

Mael says (in common), 'I have ot go'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I still don't get it.. just how does removing Dam give me a better chance against Maldobar? (for example)'.

Terenas snickers softly.

Myronides says (in common), 'in 2.x one coudl still enjoy the game than have the occasional pk attempt'.

Abe nods in recognition to Mael.

Mael says (in common), 'good discussion wish I could stay'.

Tynian says, 'So, what are we talking about? Get rid of +dam completely?'.

Mael leaves west.

Solaron says (in common), 'There's a difference between a challenge or a risk and sheer idiocy.'.

Myronides says (in common), 'now it's constant, that's why everyone is in safe all the time now'.

Tynian says, 'I need to catch up, just a sec.'.

Abe nods in recognition to Tynian.

Torchbearer says, 'Not true'.

Terenas says (in common), 'Ptar, it puts alot of people on a better footing with their enemies'.

Torchbearer says, 'Everyone of my mortal characters have faced the clave's finest, and yes its a gamble, but I survive'.

Abe says (in common), 'Eliminate dam on everything but weapons. That sounds very balancing in pvp'.

Terenas nods.

Torchbearer says, 'Even when they do hit with insane amounts of dmg'.

Abe says (in common), 'However, tough zones will be even tougher.'.

Ptarchyzk nods in recognition to Torchbearer.

Someone says, 'How will eliminating damage eq help against spells?'.

Myronides says (in common), 'If I'm expin right now I can exp in like 2 or 3 zones'.

Solaron says (in common), 'But when there's three or four of them on, TB, you can't really xp real well if they're chasing you.'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I too have survived many attempts.'.

Abe says (in common), 'None, invis imm.'.

Torchbearer says, 'You know what you do?'.

Myronides says (in common), 'hwo hard is that to chase me down? :)'.

Terenas says (in common), 'spells right now are fairly lvl based?'.

Abe nods.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'and when I have died, I regain my eq eventually.'.

Torchbearer says, 'Learn a few exp zones and bounce around and refuse to be beaten'.

Myronides says (in common), 'yes but it annoys me'.

Myronides says (in common), 'and I'm not having fun anymore than'.

Terenas says (in common), 'i fail to see how removing dam would make any difference in spells'.

Myronides says (in common), 'so I log off and play Madden 2002'.

Nazca says (in common), 'I dont think we are addressing an equipment problem'.

Torchbearer snickers softly.

Terenas says (in common), 'i think it would make it better'.

Boyardee shakes Myronides's hand.

Abe says (in common), 'Actually, we are.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'well'.

Boyardee says (in common), 'or civ3'.

Torchbearer says, 'I fail to see how removing dmg will level anything'.

Myronides snickers with Boyardee about their shared secret.

Terenas says (in common), 'will level anything?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'let me take that back, I dont think weve identified an equipment problem'.
Nazca says (in common), 'I think weve identified a player base problem'.

Torchbearer says, 'All it will do is force you to get a different type of eq'.

Myronides says (in common), 'more debt, alot more debt. greater debt for max levels pking. Dam caps.'.

Abe says (in common), 'Since dam is the most hoarded, most fought for/over eq, then eliminating it changes everything.'.

Boyardee says (in common), 'the problem is rift! it always has been'.

Terenas snickers with Boyardee about their shared secret.

Nazca says (in common), 'its not fun to play in blue followings, for various reasons'.

Torchbearer says, 'Then we will be ousting out INT and WIS because its as unfair as dmg and so on'.

Boyardee says (in common), 'those dirty shamans'.
Boyardee says (in common), 'just ignore me'.

Torchbearer licks Boyardee.

Abe says (in common), 'Yes, Torchbearer. Now folks might actually worry about their wis and int. Strange concept, I know.'.

Boyardee nods at himself; he must be getting senile.

Nazca says (in common), 'players that seek to ruin other players enjoyment of the game are a problem'.

Ptarchyzk ignores Boyardee.

Terenas says (in common), 'ok then dont make the other stats more important...'.

Someone says, 'What if blues had a complete heal spell or something to make them stronger?'.

Terenas says (in common), 'screw that idea'.

Myronides says (in common), 'than everyone makes blues and evils have it unfair'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'could also cut in half how much damage per swing +dam eq does, then you don't "Have" to change your setup, get new gear, or deal with a cap'.

Abe says (in common), 'I like that idea, invis imm, but the evils will complain heavily.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'its been the problem repeating itself over and over and over Myro'.

Terenas says (in common), 'then the blues are huge and there are no more evils'.

Nazca says (in common), 'no matter what is changed, the plkayers stay the same'.

Myronides says (in common), 'people forget that a great # of the current Clave palyed Blue chars first, than red as red got stronger'.

Nazca says (in common), 'and just like terenas said, they shift to the side that suits them best'.

Someone says, 'If it makes blues leave the saferoom and offer them more of a challenge...the Conclave won't complain, much'.

Nazca says (in common), 'bottom line'.

Myronides says (in common), 'they'd go back blue if reds suck'.

Tynian says, 'The difference between +dam and its ilk and +stat items is that the +stat items are naturally capped.'.

Terenas nods in recognition to Myronides.

Terenas nods in recognition to Tynian.

Terenas says (in common), 'very good point =)'.

Boyardee says (in common), 'hmm,true'.

Myronides says (in common), 'just decrease damage across teh board'.

Torchbearer says, 'What happened to your idea about dmg affecting hit and so on?'.

Abe says (in common), 'But damage is essentially how this problem got to where it is now.'.

Nazca throws back his head and cackles with insane glee!

Myronides says (in common), 'instead of 1dam of eq adding 1dam, have it add .5 or .4'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'whats the point myro?'.

Zaaris nods in recognition to Myronides.

Nazca says (in common), 'why not call it .5 dam them?'.
Nazca says (in common), 'hehe'.

Terenas says (in common), 'that wont do anything myro'.

Myronides says (in common), 'less damgae done'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'that doesnt change who is in power'.

Torchbearer says, 'If you do that, it changes nothing'.

Myronides says (in common), 'fewer pk's, more group exping'.

Terenas says (in common), 'it will just make it harder to lvl etc'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'that would just make pking harder and look at pkstats'.

Nazca says (in common), 'the problem is a playerbase problem'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'I'm not sure we're trying to change who is in power, are we?'.

Myronides says (in common), 'along with the new group exp code (whenver we get reboot) all good'.

Someone says, 'Changing eq is not going to change who is in power.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'right now pking is around 2% '.

Nazca says (in common), 'where one group of players feel they cant compete with another group of players'.

Myronides says (in common), 'well the people in power now are destroying the game'.

Tynian says, 'People don't like it, Torchbearer. Sounds like they'd rather I remove +dam.'.

Torchbearer chuckles, evidently amused.

Zaaris says (in common), 'not harder to level exactly, as we may be seeing change to xp when grouped'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'we just don't want it to be absolute power (or the perception of absolute power)'.

Nazca says (in common), 'therefore they jsut dont play'.

Tynian says, 'I wasn't thinking big enough, I guess'.
Tynian grins mischievously.

Torchbearer says, 'Bah, whiny playerbase!'.

Torchbearer comforts Tynian.

Zakarious says (in common), 'how about this'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'the mud is now big guys hitting little guys'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I still want to know what's wrong with changing the just codes.. unjust attack=penalty, just attack=bonus..'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'the mid ranges dont fight much or get to do much'.

Abe says (in common), 'It's really simple. People that pk as a profession hit harder than I can reasonably recover from. Hence, I avoid pk.'.

Someone says, 'I believe Tynian's goal is to give players a better chance to survive pk attempts'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'i suggest this changed because the mid ranges have to wear so much lvl eq'.

Myronides nods in recognition to Abe.

Nazca says (in common), 'but Abe you havent tested out new additions properly, have you'.

Abe says (in common), 'Eliminate the dam, and everyone gets a chance.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'eliminate dam and no one gets a chance at anything'.

Someone says, 'For those of you joining us late...there is a letter on the Conclave message board to read'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'how does a warrior exp?'.

Terenas says (in common), 'not true zakarious'.

Abe says (in common), 'How so, Zak?'.

Solaron nods.

Zaaris says (in common), 'in a group'.

Solaron says (in common), 'Thank you, Imm.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'but what will the warrior add without any dam?'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'a tank'.

Mordith utters the words, 'true seeing'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'I beleive the removal of dam bonus only applies to a PvP battle.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'a cleric is a better tank'.

Terenas says (in common), 'My idea is that dam be totally removed and have it based totally on weapon avg'.

Nazca says (in common), 'i random with threats online and i rarely see someone in zone, let alone get attacked - i use store and mish to help me save and gather nice things'.

Myronides says (in common), 'personally I think we're just all doomed'.
Myronides waves happily.
Myronides leaves west.

Torchbearer says, 'If you do that, Terenas, guess what?'.

Terenas says (in common), 'and have a dmg map by lvl for various classes'.

Torchbearer says, 'You'll next complain about weapon avg's being too high'.

Terenas says (in common), 'what torchie?'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'i personally don't see a whole lot of people playing single classed warriors anyways'.

Torchbearer says, 'And say that all weapons should hit the same'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'exactly'.

Mordith smirks.

Terenas says (in common), 'weapon avgs are not that varied'.

Nazca says (in common), 'i think the key is code changes to class/skill/spell system'.

Terenas says (in common), 'and it should not affect dmg by that much'.

Abe says (in common), 'Well, no. Since a weapon avg won't ever give a char an ability to hit 80s, then I won't ever complain.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'so who would have the edge terenas?'.

Torchbearer says, 'The difference would matter if you removed all dmg'.

Nazca says (in common), 'if single classed good clerics could have a group heal spell for example'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'what is the point in playing if its all based on 1 item worn your weapon?'.

Terenas says (in common), 'its should be based mostly on lvl'.

Nazca says (in common), 'single classed warrors get 4 attacks or bash and disarm'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'they do.. it's called a relic.'.

Torchbearer says, 'So essentially, I should scratch you to death if I want to pk you, Abe?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'bash the guy who swings 100 and hes taken out of play'.

Nazca says (in common), 'solutin right there'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'right now people pk 1 in 50 tries how low do you guys want it to be?'.

Torchbearer nods in recognition to Nazca.

Nazca says (in common), 'bring more strategy into pking'.

Abe says (in common), 'Sounds fine. You might have to cast a few times in there as well.'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'but what if the guy who swings 100 bashes me'.

Someone says, 'Please read this before jumping in on the conversation'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'I'm dead before I can stand up'.

Terenas says (in common), 'as much as i am tryin to get away from evercrack, it actually works pretty good there the way dmg works, and its pretty much based on weapon and str'.

Kantor nods.

Kantor says (in common), 'have read'.

Mordith says (in common), 'well looks like absolutely no progress has been made since i was last here'.

Kantor says (in common), 'this is a discussion about PK stuff on TFC?'.

Abe says (in common), 'agree Terenas'.

Zakarious nods.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'so.. remove damage bonus and all the pker's become level 30 warriors.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'I'll stick by my guns in saying that the class/spell/skill system, the random code, and nw zones and areas will fix the current problems'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'no they become lvl 30 cleric shaman or mages ptarch'.

Nazca says (in common), 'because level 40 and 50 players will tinker '.
Nazca says (in common), 'and experiment'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'cause they have the best str, and can use the highest avg weapons.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'if you could bash the guy who swung 100 would he be a threat?'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'so what is the point in being a ranger then ptarch?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'if your single classed cleric had a group heal spell, would this help?'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'so what you're saying, Nazca, is you want to take the player base and move it to a different game'.

Abe says (in common), 'Once again, the point here is that people hitting me for more than I can bear is the issue.'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'what's the point in being a thief in a PK situation?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'its quite a wide scope of changes - that would probably lead to a new version'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'the thief bses'.

Zaaris says (in common), 'finding the prey, info2/3'.

Tynian says, '3.83'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'the others finish the kill it works well ptarch'.

Tynian nods at himself; he must be getting senile.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'single classed clerics already get relics.. and a relic can be area effect.'.

Whitehawk the great is here!

Someone chuckles at Tynian's joke.

Nazca says (in common), 'how many people in your range can swing 100 abe'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'relics arent used much at high lvls'.

Nazca grins wickedly at Tynian.

Tynian says, 'So, um, what did you decide, so I can get to work?'.

Abe says (in common), 'at 100?... Ravaged'.

Tynian raises an eyebrow.
Tynian smirks.

Kantor says (in common), 'relics are already nasty'.

Zakarious grins wickedly.

Abe says (in common), 'close? .. Craige, Trinety'.

Nazca says (in common), 'if you attack him certainluy'.

Terenas says (in common), 'ah well, i have got to get away from the computer, my eyes are killin me!'.

Kantor says (in common), 'because you can empower them many times/round'.

Terenas waves happily.

Zakarious says (in common), 'how about we go back to 2x lvl eq rules?'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'then lvlers can wear dam and can stand up to those hunting them if in groups'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'if you want make hitroll more effective so we can wear more hit to combat the dam the conclave is waering currently'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'Tynian.. is the point of all this to allow PKer's to kill, while allowing the target to get away?'.

Solaron says (in common), 'I do agree with Zakarious, that may help actually.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'but dont take away dmg'.

Solaron says (in common), 'Allowing levellers to actually wear dmg gear would give them a chance.'.

Abe says (in common), 'I can't get away from 80-100 swings vs 2 mor more players'.

Nazca says (in common), 'no matter what version TFC was in, weve always had characters that swing much more than those smaller than them'.

Solaron says (in common), 'afk a sec.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'dont even hurt people for wearing dmg'.

Nazca says (in common), 'paladins'.

Abe says (in common), 'one round.. maybe 2'.

Nazca says (in common), 'rangers'.

Nazca shivers uncomfortably.

Zakarious says (in common), 'abe how many people in your range swing that hard?'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'craige swings 70 at most'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'trin doesnt even swing 60'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'atsome point you ahve to suck it up'.

Nazca says (in common), 'the problem is, is that the pkers are not regulated, and they have no restrictions on who they attack and how often'.

Abe says (in common), 'Spoken like a true pk'er.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'shouldnt two people with the best eq on the mud be able to kill someone else?'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'heh i dont even pk abe'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'if those 2 can't what is the use of thier eq?'.

Torchbearer nods in recognition to Zakarious.

Mael arrives from the west.
Mael says (in common), 'quick idea'.
Mael says (in common), 'had to spit it out'.

Abe says (in common), 'Point: Tyn wants to increase player base'.
Abe says (in common), 'Point: players quit because they die in 2 rounds... often'.

Nazca says (in common), 'what if blue chars got to attack really notorious chars in saferooms etc'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'and if they are in a pk following what is the point of the following'.

Mael says (in common), 'ever hear of rpi?'.
Mael says (in common), 'the ratings percentage index?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'it is so easy to escape abe'.

Abe says (in common), 'Point: dam makes that happen'.

Torchbearer says, 'Then they stink, Abe, they stink'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'i been mentioning that mael'.

Torchbearer smirks.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'if the problem is lack of pk regulation.. modify the justified codes to regulate them more.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'no one concedes that pks are only 1 in 50 right not and that it istn low enough'.

Mael says (in common), 'if I wasn't pking for damage, it would be cool to see myself toward the top fo the rpi at least'.
Mael says (in common), 'I mean, non-damage eq plus a cool designation?'.

Abe says (in common), 'Point: eliminate or curtail dam, and more players will play'.

Tynian says, '(BTW, if you haven't read it already, go to the URL listed on the note list, and read the referenced page)'.

Mael leaves west.

Kantor says (in common), 'what's rpi exactly mael?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'I enjoy character building and development more - pking can be a way of getting there quicker ;>'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'abe wont you lose people who play to get good eq?'.

Abe says (in common), 'Define good eq'.

Torchbearer nods in recognition to Nazca.

Abe says (in common), 'Right now, that means 'dam.

Someone says, 'Does The Final Challenge have to become less challenging to get more popular?'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'damage, or da which is only useful if others wear dam'.

Tynian says, 'You know, Mael, I was actually going to do PK 'scoring'..'.

Nazca says (in common), 'no abe thts wrong'.

Abe says (in common), 'It's a constant circle, Zak'.

Tynian says, 'which would calculate some sort of 'victim' score and average, as a PK ranking system'.

Ammonia nods.

Zakarious says (in common), 'and if you take out dam you take out everything abe'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'you lose everyoen'.

Tynian says, 'But then I decided that now is the wrong time to encourage more PKing.'.

Torchbearer nods in recognition to Zakarious.

Ammonia says (in common), 'you get more points for killing someone with a higher score'.

Abe says (in common), 'You're saying that without dam, there's no need to play'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'If you put in a PK ranking.. then also put in a Evade ranking.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'AC, SVS, HP/MANA HR and DAM are what you generally aim for depending on your char'.

Cordir nods in recognition to Ptarchyzk.

Zakarious says (in common), 'without dam there is no reason to waer da, without dam there is no reason to have a swinging class'.

Nazca says (in common), 'the big level 40s and 50s need something else to do right now'.
Nazca says (in common), 'like learn new classes'.

Zakarious nods in recognition to Nazca.

Whitehawk says, 'they can look after Whitehawk's'.

Nazca says (in common), 'explore bigger zones'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'or keep exping or help others exp in groups'.

Abe says (in common), 'I think I covered this in my previous points.'.

Weezer says (in common), 'whats gonna happen when everyones 30 30 30'.

Nazca says (in common), 'equipment is easily gathered through mish, and randoming, now you can store it all away'.

Someone says, 'A new zone is usually defeated in a fraction of the time it takes to write it'.

Tynian says, 'An evade ranking was a little trickier for me, Ptarchyzk.'.

Tynian smiles happily.

Zakarious says (in common), 'and lvling chars need a chance to fight the big chars succesfully in groups which they cant do wearing tons of lvl eq'.

Solaron sits down and thinks deeply.

Abe says (in common), 'dam eq has meant a decrease in player base, as well as available 'targets' for the professional pk'er'.

Ptarchyzk says (in common), 'well, this is engaging and all.. but I ahve stuff to do that this has already taken too much time out of.'.

Nazca says (in common), 'so the point where you have all said that losing equipment ruins the game is mad einvalid'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'abe what are you talking about'.

Ptarchyzk waves happily.
Ptarchyzk leaves west.

Abe says (in common), 'Address dam, and you address Tyn's goals.'.

Tynian nods in recognition to someone.

Zakarious shakes his head.

Nazca says (in common), 'because they have no replay value to a point, Molo'.

Tynian says, 'And I'm about 20 lines behind at a given time, so.'.
Tynian smirks.

Zakarious says (in common), 'if you take away dmg the pkers will wear hitroll etc instead'.

Nazca says (in common), 'I know that peope still group up regularly to adventure in the newest zone that was added, because it is hard'.

Whitehawk says, 'thats what I wore :)'.

Abe says (in common), 'Yes they will. Point?'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'if your goal is to make pking less effective in general then you have to decide what the rate of success you want is'.

Someone says, 'Killers will eventually adapt to eq changes'.

Torchbearer says, 'And kill you anyway'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'the point is you dont change anythign abe'.

Torchbearer chuckles, evidently amused.

Nazca says (in common), 'AND equipment that has been workjed on gathering for hundreds of hours '.
Nazca throws back his head and cackles with insane glee!
Nazca says (in common), 'mish has something'.
Nazca says (in common), 'gotta go'.
Nazca leaves west.

Zakarious says (in common), 'you do a temporary diservice to those with dam is all'.

Abe says (in common), 'No matter the change they make, if they aren't swinging more than I can recover, I might stick around'.
Abe says (in common), 'This is all about dam eq.'.
Abe says (in common), 'No matter how you slice it.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'abe if hitroll is more important then you will still get hit for as much hps'.

Abe says (in common), 'No you won't'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'so you are saying no one should ever be able to kill you'.

Torchbearer says, 'If you remove dmg, I sense a flood of shaman rifters'.

Someone says, 'So how do we increase the player base and make surviving pks easier?'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'which equals pointless to play for pkers'.

Abe says (in common), 'I'm saying that the 2-rounders are ludicrous'.

Solaron says (in common), 'It shouldn't be as east to be one or two rounded, Zak.'.

Torchbearer says, 'Then spell damage will have to be reduced to zero to curb pks'.
Torchbearer nods at himself; he must be getting senile.

Solaron nods in recognition to Abe.

Weezer nods in recognition to Torchbearer.
Weezer grins wickedly.

Zakarious says (in common), 'does surviving need to be easier than 98 out of 100 times?'.

Torchbearer nods in recognition to Zakarious.
Torchbearer grins evilly.

Solaron says (in common), 'That all depends.'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'I bet those swinging 100 have a better than 2% success rate'.

Nazca arrives from the west.
Nazca shows his approval by clapping his hands together.
Nazca says (in common), 'easy stuiff ;>'.

Abe says (in common), 'Your opinion has merit for your personal goals, Zak. They do not, however, address Tynian's.'.

Solaron says (in common), 'The last two times I've been summoned, or had an attempt, I would've died if the pker wasn't inept or if the pker hadn't reverse summoned.'.

Someone says, 'The Conclave kills almost 7% of those they attack'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'umkey sol wear svs'.

Abe nods.

Nazca says (in common), '7 out of 100 tries heh'.

Zaaris arrives from the west.

Torchbearer says, '7% people, 7%'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'the mud is set so if you wear svs you are not summonable'.

Solaron says (in common), 'I'm wearing svs, Zak.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'you arent wearing enough'.

Solaron says (in common), 'I'm not?'.
Solaron sits down and thinks deeply.

Torchbearer says, 'If you can't manage to hit 93% evade... yowza'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'not if you were summonable'.

Solaron says (in common), 'Anyone is summonable.'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'but what % do the top killers get?'.

Zakarious nods in recognition to Torchbearer.

Nazca says (in common), 'I have heard of a level 50 well equipped mage being unable to dispel a well balanced char's sanc in 14 tries'.

Solaron says (in common), 'I wore -19svs and was summoned.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'they got very lucky sol'.

Abe says (in common), 'Even with the concern of summoning, the only reason it's a worry is because you fear lasting 1-2 rounds.'.

Torchbearer nods in recognition to Nazca.

Zakarious says (in common), 'svs is set so high now that it takes spells out of the picture and is why damage is so important'.

Nazca says (in common), 'it is not easay to pk, when targets ARE out of safe'.

Abe says (in common), 'I know you're trying hard not to focus on it, but dam is the sole source of all these issues.'.

Zakarious shakes his head.

Torchbearer says, 'I think you are making it the sole source of all these issues'.

Nazca says (in common), 'mish rocks btw hehe'.

Tynian says, 'The PK stats miss an important point, BTW'.

Abe says (in common), 'So why else does anyone worry about leaving safe?'.

Torchbearer says, 'Paranoia'.

Nazca says (in common), 'they feel that they have no chance'.

Abe says (in common), 'Over what?'.

Torchbearer says, 'My characters are *never* in safe'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'they dont work together abe and b/c they have to wear so much lvl eq they have no chance'.

Tynian says, 'The point is _not_ that a following kills 7% of the time'.

Someone says, 'How about this, where do we get new players and why would they want to play here?'.

Tynian says, 'With so many heavy swingers, people just recall when one enters the zone'.

Nazca says (in common), 'some people believe so much in their eq that they will do anything not to lose it - you cnt change that mentaloty'.
Nazca says (in common), 'mentality'.

Tynian says, 'That just disrupts play'.

Abe agrees with Tynian 100%.

Zakarious nods in recognition to Tynian.

Torchbearer says, 'I disagree Tynian'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'so they need to learn different zones get big and then they can play'.

Tynian says, 'Why leave the guild, only to recall every 10 minutes because you've been found.'.

Torchbearer says, 'It disrupts play if someone only knows one zone to exp'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'because you can exp that way'.

Nazca says (in common), 'I certainly do not stay in a zone and wait to be killed if i am being hunted'.
Nazca says (in common), 'TFC has a HUGE number of exp spots'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'its very easy to switch zones, especially with mages'.

Torchbearer nods in recognition to Nazca.

Zakarious says (in common), 'the key is that people who are lvling cannot pk'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'even in the conclave the lvlers dont pk'.

Nazca says (in common), 'make hometoiwns harder to pk in - with big slue like guards'.
Nazca says (in common), 'that also regulate the pking system'.
Nazca says (in common), 'the toughest thing is when players swarm in groups in hometowns'.

Zakarious shakes his head.

Nazca says (in common), 'once your out, you have a chance'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'that rarely happens at all nazca'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'everyone is from different towns now'.

Torchbearer says, 'So you get a tele from a friend and you're done with it'.

Nazca says (in common), 'heh '.
Nazca says (in common), 'of course it happens, its not hard to work out where people are from'.

Tynian says, 'Yeah, but killers can find people very, very easily'.

Nazca says (in common), 'or lets take the "wait at nydia drop strategy"'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'but it takes a while to assemble in thistlerock'.

Solaron nods in recognition to Tynian.

Zakarious says (in common), 'niot so'.

Nazca says (in common), 'then maybe its too easy to find people'.

Torchbearer says, 'Bah'.

Tynian says, 'So, yes, you're right, you can spend a lot of time transitioning from zone to zone..'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'lvl 50s can but if you are lvl 25 they cant hunt you'.

Nazca says (in common), 'mael said this earlier and i agree'.

Tynian says, 'but that's not much fun'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'I liked Mael's idea with whoz'.

Torchbearer says, 'It depends on what you call fun'.
Torchbearer says, 'I like challenge, so its fun for me'.

Nazca says (in common), 'so you'd rather see players sitting in one zone for a specific number of levels'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'basically the guys that can info2 you and pk have to be large characters'.

Solaron says (in common), 'Maldobar, Mordith, Valo...'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'thier thief has to be 20 and they have to have 2 other classes lvled high as well to be good pkers'.

Abe says (in common), 'My personal enjoyment comes from tough zones. Master's was the most fun I've ever had.'.

Someone says, 'I believe whoz is used just as much if not more for protection than finding someone.'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'therefore they are not in your range while exping'.

Solaron says (in common), 'You're ignoring the fact that Conclavers have "ftell". Unless you never say "So and So in TP"'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'i agree'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'it is, but only because they can see you easily with whoz'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'whoz is used more for protection than for finding'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'if they can't find you as easily, you don't need as much protection'.

Ograk gossips (in common), 'hellooo TFC :)'.

Nazca says (in common), 'once you locate a target, its pretty much all over from there'.

Zakarious sits down and thinks deeply.

Nazca says (in common), 'and with group exping, and the new changes, it wont be hard to group with a shaman or mage'.
Nazca says (in common), 'to phosphate and alarm'.

Zakarious nods in recognition to Nazca.

Tynian says, 'Mael's idea with whozone benefits PKers, particularly cle'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'and if you waer svs you arent summonable'.

Tynian lags.

Solaron says (in common), 'I'm at -16svs.'.

Skeeve says (in elven), 'thats not true Zakarious'.

Solaron shrugs.

Solaron says (in common), 'Thank you Skeeve.'.

Skeeve says (in elven), 'I've been at -24 and been summoned'.

Skeeve says (in elven), 'it is just harder'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'sol you are a large char now'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'you arent the size of any new char'.

Ammonia says (in common), 'so make it a toggle (but limit how quickly you can toggle it)'.

Whitehawk grins evilly at Skeeve.

Nazca says (in common), 'report please solaron?'.

Skeeve says (in elven), 'I've been slept at -22'.

Solaron mutters something under his breath.

Boyardee chuckles, evidently amused.

Solaron has horrible hp's!
Solaron sniffs sadly.

Tynian says, 'No, I'd prefer that it not be so easy to drive people away just by the virtue of swinging a LOT of damage.'.

Solaron reports: 435/435 hp 302/338 mana 392/392 mv 425039 xp.

Nazca reports: 399/399 hp 252/252 mana 561/561 mv 291067 xp.

Boyardee reports: 707/707 hp 188/223 mana 563/563 mv 460671 xp.

Abe agrees with Tynian 100%.

Someone says, 'info, locates, tracking, knowing which area someone is likely to be in or has been seen in are all ways to find players'.

Nazca says (in common), 'i have worse and m around the same level'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'how many people play inorder to buildhow hard they swing?'.

Skeeve says (in elven), 'most good pkers'.
Skeeve says (in elven), 'who are worth their salt'.
Skeeve says (in elven), 'can run to every zone in NC'.
Skeeve says (in elven), 'in a matter of minutes'.

Solaron nods in recognition to Skeeve.

Someone says, 'For those of us just joining, please read the last note and the Tynain-Craige letter'.

Nazca says (in common), 'if TFC becomes a place for less skilled players, the skilled older players will elve'.

Skeeve says (in elven), 'Already did'.

Skeeve grins happily.

Torchbearer nods in recognition to Nazca.

Skeeve says (in elven), 'Why Nazca?'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'what would happen if you lessened the value of svs?'.

Abe says (in common), 'dam != skill'.

Nazca says (in common), 'becuse 1. there is no challenge'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'spells would become more important dam less'.

Skeeve says (in elven), 'Why would there be no challenge?'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'abe how do they get that dmg eq?'.

Tynian says, 'Well, then, if I have to make that choice, then I choose for TFC to be acessable to newer players as well as old'.

Skeeve says (in elven), 'Personally... if it is harder to kill someone.. is that not more challenge?'.

Abe says (in common), 'Their fol gears them initially, then they pk and get more, they give their fol what they don't use'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'skeeve could you speak common please'.

Nazca says (in common), 'a lot of the suggestions being made look to be dumbing down pking, to compensate for the fact that there is not enough compeition -->'.

Abe says (in common), 'It's called a 'cycle.

Skeeve says (in common), 'Sure'.

Nazca says (in common), 'being other players that regulate the evil pkers'.

Tynian says, 'So, I guess that's it.'.

Someone says, 'Where are we going to get our new players from and convince them to commit to playing a long term text based game?'.

Tynian says, 'Thanks for your time, guys.'.

Skeeve sits down and thinks deeply.

Abe bows before Tynian.

Solaron says (in common), 'What's it?'.

Skeeve says (in common), 'I guess I came in late'.

Tynian steps through a rift in the universe, and disappears.

Zakarious says (in common), 'i agree with the invis'.
Zakarious sighs loudly.

Skeeve says (in common), 'what did I miss'.

Torchbearer nods in recognition to Zakarious.

Torchbearer says, 'Me too'.

Solaron leaves west.

Torchbearer bounces around.
Torchbearer bounces around.
Torchbearer is engulfed by a shimmering aura and fades from your vision.

Zakarious says (in common), 'a debate on whether to get rid of all dam'.

Ammonia stands up.

Zaaris says (in common), 'time for reboot :)'.

Zakarious nods.

Zakarious says (in common), 'i sure wish they would reboot'.

Skeeve says (in common), 'unless the spell system underwent a huge revamp'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'removing all dam'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'would make the game unplayable'.

Nazca nods.

Zakarious says (in common), 'ya and what is the point of being a warrioror ranger?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'and skill system and class system also'.
Nazca says (in common), 'no matter what choice is made, there is no quick fix'.
Nazca says (in common), 'this is what i think is wrong currently'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'all you have to do to make dam less important is make svs less powerful'.

Nazca says (in common), 'you cant quick fix this problem'.

Skeeve says (in common), 'TFC might be at a point there is no "fix" short of major major major changes'.

Zakarious shakes his head.

Skeeve says (in common), 'That won't work'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'the conclave has few shaman'.

Skeeve says (in common), 'Pkers will still slap on major ammounts of damage'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'you just add in a lot more killers who rely on spells'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'you make svs less powerful groups of few dmg but much casing can beat guys who use dmg'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'the point isnt to ruin pking skeeve'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'the point is to allow others to pk and balance it out'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'right now people only pk about 2% of the time'.

Skeeve says (in common), 'I never said I wanted to ruin pking'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'that is a very small number'.
Zakarious says (in common), 'the number of pks isnt the problem'.

Skeeve says (in common), 'and how did you come up with that number?'.

Zakarious says (in common), 'pkstat'.

Skeeve says (in common), 'ok your sentance did not make sense'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'you made it sound like'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'they only spend 2% of their time pking'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'also rememeber'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'those numbers are not the best indicator'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'becuse unless I'm mistaken'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'each time you "kill joe"'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'he flees'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'and you "kill joe"'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'again'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'thats an attack'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'you may end up slaying joe'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'but you attacked him 5 or 6 times'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'all in one combat'.
Skeeve rolls his eyes.
Skeeve says (in common), 'ok he left'.
Skeeve smirks.
Skeeve looks at Nazca.

Skeeve says (in common), 'you already had your sale eh?'.

Nazca says (in common), 'me?'.

Skeeve nods.

Skeeve says (in common), 'oh duh'.
Skeeve says (in common), 'next week'.

Nazca says (in common), 'no ;>'.

Skeeve pokes himself in the ribs, looking very sheepish.

Nazca says (in common), 'soon!'.

Skeeve says (in common), 'I'm losing my brain'.